SingularityNET: Deep Funding | Community Governance – December 14, 2022

Yeah, all right. Great to see you all here. The purpose of the meeting is retrospective on community governance calls. I haven’t really studied the responses in detail. I just scanned them, so I will just put it on screen and then we can go through it, question by question together and we can read what other people have been entering and we can add to that our own thoughts and maybe bring it to some conclusion. In the meantime, just before I pressed the record button, there was a great story from Felix. I’m going to repeat it, Felix, unless you want to do it. So the guys there asked chat GPT, GPT whether it would integrate with the platform and have created deep funding proposal for itself. So they asked it to write a summary and milestones etc. And it worked out so well that we might be able to welcome chat GPT on our platform in not too long time. So I’m looking forward to that proposal. I hope there will be a lot more to come because I totally forgot when we are regarding this today is also a big milestone for ourselves. All of us here because this is the starting date of the second round of deep funding. And I hope that by the time you see this, which is hopefully also very quickly, the first proposals might already start to land on our platform. But it’s open for four weeks, more than four weeks, so you have plenty of time. Whether you want to work in during the holidays or around it, both would be possible. So I hope you can find the time. And of course, I hope that everybody who wants to submit does it doesn’t wait until the last moment because as soon as you do submit the more valuable feedback you can get and the better you can make your proposal. All right, that was a spontaneous introduction on deep funding round two. Purpose of today or the agenda, the main point on the agenda is retrospective on these meetings. So, please be candid, be open, be critical if you need to. Constructive is possible. I think if deep funding is about one thing, it’s about experimenting and learning. And the same goes for these meetings. To be honest, in singularity that we have actually very ambitious goals concerning community governance, douse and all that stuff, of which we hope to tell you more also in the beginning of next year. So deep funding right now is very cool but also very important testing ground for that. So, all the more reason to look seriously at this retrospective. Let me see if I can draw up the results one moment, organize my sheet a little bit. So, we did a short survey to give everybody the opportunity to give their feedback. Also, if you’re not able to attend to this meeting, you took timing for instance or other reasons. Or if you are not, we’re not able to attend to this particular meeting. Oh, yeah, I think I can disclose this. So, some people added their name, but we won’t draw on that too much. It’s most important to see the answers. The reason that I asked for an optional name is that it might give some more opportunities to accommodate people in specific wishes they should have. Right. So, we have at this moment five responses and most people have attended one or more meetings and I think one person was mostly here watching videos and both are interesting perspectives. So, let’s just go through it, question by question, unless you have another idea. What is your perceived purpose of the meetings? Does this align with your expectations and desire purpose? Our first read through, allowed through the answers here. And then if you’re all done eating, then maybe we can discuss it a little bit if so needed. So, perceived purpose. Figure out how to do decentralized innovation fund, yep, pretty well aligned, to discuss community inputs on the deep funding design rules and rules and share insights. Check. Setting up the right foundations that would make deep funding sustainable and successful, reflecting on previous rounds in discussing improvements, collaborating on vision and enhancements for the tools and platform used. Growing the community, yes, the meeting aligned and actually exceed my expectation and desire purpose. Wow, I’m really reading this for the first time right now. That’s really good to hear. The deep funding governance meeting was one of pastor piece. The road maps were discussed in that level and in my understanding. Okay, that’s really nice. I perceive you are accompanying the projects and also giving them a shout out. I align completely with this initiative. All right, so this is all quite positive. There was actually not something I completely expected. I also expected a little bit of pushback. So, we’re doing this meetings, but do we get enough say in the meetings or is there enough output clear from the meetings? So, what is your ideas on that? Here anybody would like to comment on that? I can. My answer is the second on the list, sir. No, yeah, all across the board. Very positive reactions clearly. You know, one thing that I thought might be improved at some point at least is that in a lot of these meetings, it’s 80% need talking. Okay. And in an ideal world and that doesn’t have to be next week or the week after or whatever, but at some point would be great if these meetings would also go perfectly well without me being there. And maybe we would just community members being there. So, that’s actually my only observation. Of course, I love to hear myself talking. So, no complaints here, but just kidding. I do think so. My perspective on this is that I think that this does also have something to do with the face that we’re in. We’re now laying the foundations and making big changes. And if you compare around two to round one, it’s already quite different. And it’s possible that round three and four or whatever we will organize it will also be quite different. And I take the room right now that I get to try and steer that in the right direction, but I very much appreciate your feedback and that feedback also had impact and made changes. But I do expect as we go along and the format will become a bit more stabilized. And at that moment, it will also, there might also be more opportunities for you to take the steering wheel and to create a proposal. Of course, we also have the governance rounds, which also is a perfect way to contribute with proposals. But those are real proposals. And these governance meetings are also on all kinds of smaller details, right? So, these are my thoughts on the topic. Anyone else would like to chime in here? Or should I assume that everything has been set? What helps, or at least that’s really, as you mentioned, to the current face of deepfinding itself. I was just imagining a situation where you wouldn’t be hosting and what would happen. I would imagine that, for example, on Discord, we would have some process for collecting agenda items. I never make me also wonder about the investor program. I never call out so much like, if you have something you want to be discussed during the meeting, please put it on Discord. It’s more like an assumption that people will do that. However, that doesn’t really happen, not by itself, at least. So, maybe that’s something we can, we have somewhat facilitate, or we can look at the state. We did that for, I think, four or five times or something. We had a number of topics and we had a process on Discord for voting. I looked at it not too long ago, a couple of weeks ago, and I did notice that all of these topics have been covered there. But I think it’s perfectly fine to reinstate at some point. I think at some moment there were always specific topics that had a very good reason why we need to, for instance, a starting that governance round and the rules about it and then talking about which proposals were best suited to have an actual vote on. Those were all needed topics in these meetings. So, I didn’t leave a lot of time for three, four or more so to speak. But yeah, I think maybe the next time would be a good one to collect again new ideas for topics. All right, anyone else? I did see you on a mute for a moment, Nadim. No, I think overall seems pretty positive. That’s a good sign. I think we’ll probably get more insights from the following questions. Because here it’s just quite high level and overall looks very positive, which is encouraging. That’s because you’re all such nice people, right? Let’s go to the next one. That was actually very true. Yeah, I mean it. We do have nice and constructive discussions here and I do value that. So, thank you. Next question. What do you like about the meetings? What is going well? Now, consistent progress, the topics covered, the transparency and openness. I really appreciate that. The meetings are very open and engaging. Great discussions and health and all perspectives are appreciated and built upon. Wow. Cool. What I like about the meeting was the fact that all documents were made available for the attendees to make reference and to read further on the next steps of the funding rounds. Yeah. The short and long term plans for deep funding make sense a lot and the expectations from project owners make more accountable. All right, I’m not sure if I completely get the last part, but I’ll take it. And finally, it’s great to see the community is involved. That is true. And I think we also owe a big thank you to the catalyst crowd here. So, thank you. We couldn’t do it without you, probably. So, this is the easy part where it’s going well. Anything else otherwise will just go to the next one. Anyone want to comment on or elaborate on this? I don’t want to fish too much about things that are going well. Fishing for compliments, we call that, but not sure if that’s an English phrase actually, but it works in the Netherlands. You know, one thing I would say about what works well is actually something that initially I thought was not working well. The fact that initially when I first came in, I thought maybe decisions were already made from the top and you know, it’s more of a centralized thing. And I initially thought that might not be the best approach, but actually after practice, I’m finding that actually does have its merits because at the end of the day, there’s someone that is taking the lead and accountable. And you get the advice in the future from everyone. So, that’s actually something from my end, that’s been a progression as I join these meetings and see the progress. It’s actually sometimes a good thing because that’s really a weakness in catalysts where we think everything is so decentralized that you need everyone’s okay and agreement and we many times get stuck in a loop and keep running around and there’s no real means of agreeing and proceeding. Whereas here, everything goes quite smooth and fast because there is that structure. So that’s actually something of a progression of my thoughts after joining these meetings. That is a very, very important insight, really, very important. That was actually what I was also referring to when I made my comment on the first question. And I mentioned that it has something to do with the face that we’re in. There are so much things that need to be arranged and changed and set up, etc. But I’m glad that you think that way and I tend to agree. But I also don’t think this is not the end station. I think we need to continue to build on democratic processes and making sure that everybody’s voice is heard where they want, etc. So I think personally for now this is perhaps the best way to make progress as you’re saying. It’s also very important insight in the context of further decentralization of singularity net as a foundation because there we will have the same things. The last thing that we want is to give ownership to the community and then find out that the community is not able to make a decision on things or driving things forward or whatever. So there may not always be an easy solution there, but I think our ongoing and true purpose is to make decentralization work. And that might mean in the beginning. And so that might mean that we will not plunge in completely and then say one toe, one fold, here are the keys and make the best of it. But also try to guide it and to develop it and to educate it from this very early stage to maturity. And I think we need to go through a number of steps. But I would like to state here that we’re absolutely 100% certain and determined to make decentralization work in a proper way. And as much as I appreciate your feedback, we’re also determined to make it better than it is today. I think actually it’s quite needed at the beginning stages of the project. And in retrospect, now this is actually one of the challenges that we’re facing on the catheter side. And that’s one of the strong points here. And I definitely agree that’s not scalable. Once the community really grows, we need to think of how we democratize and decentralize things. And having the foundations now in place is the top priority. It’s actually a best practice that many communities should glean from this when starting as they transition and evolve. Yeah. Yeah. Well, comparing to catalyst in a sense, we have a luxury position because catalyst is already so big and so complex that it becomes hard to change. And it’s also always been and the back of my mind that we should keep this program agile and organizing it in a way that it stays agile. And to give a very concrete example there, what I have resisted a little bit until now, I’m not sure that will will continue for always. But for now, is create all kinds of layers of decision making in the program. While that might be attractive for some things, it’s easy to have a or attractive for some decisions to throw a group of people together and then have them think about topics. My goal until now has been to try and do that by tooling. Our reputation experiment is I think a very good example of that. So by enabling people to collect reputation points, we giving them the opportunity. We have an organic way of organizing people without establishing all kinds of fixed layers and gained rights and roles, etc. in the organization. And the ambition there is also to keep it alive and to keep it fresh and to give both new people that come into the system and have a lot of good ideas, opportunities to grow and also at the same time, etmology experience from people that have been here for a long time. And I think the configurability of a reputation system is something that might help in this sense. But also there are a lot of ground we still need to cover. But yeah, I think the governance round was quite successful in that way and really looking forward to round two for real in a sense, how it will work out there. And I hope when we’re at round four or five that it will have matured to an extent that we can really rely on the reputation of people and give them appropriate weight based on their reputation ratings. I am babbling along a little bit too much here. Let’s get back to the survey. All right, thank you for that input, Nadine. Now, the more interesting part, maybe, what could be improved? Better format of questions for the whole audience. Yeah, the question. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. I need to let that sink in. Let’s first get to the other answers. Attendance and engagement numbers, quite happy with the current numbers, but always aim higher. Solid rewards are already in place as well. Agree. Having more people join, maybe time slot and your age duration of meetings, website description about the meetings. Ah, yeah, yeah, that’s a very good one. That’s a very good one. Better format of questions for the whole audience. I think that somehow ties into what Peter said before that it might help to go out and have a system where we could ask for topics to address in these meetings. I still expect in the future there will be some meetings that will more or less be predetermined because there are some important topics. Or maybe it will be both. So, we have done that in the past as well that there was one topic which was predetermined and some other topics addressed by the community. So, that is a way. I’m guessing that what is meant here also is maybe like a survey that is put out to the community for all kinds of things. So, there’s more like a direct interaction. I’m not 100% sure. Of course, we have the governance round for larger topics. We don’t want to start voting on every minor thing that would get very quickly to voting fatigue. I can imagine at some point it would be interesting to have more like questions in these settings where we say, okay, we have this issue and we have three options here. Which one do you like best? I sense that maybe that is what is being meant here. But potentially another way as well is maybe based on the burning question of the day or that week we can have like a theme for that for each session with maybe one or two questions for everyone to prepare to say these are the things that we’re mainly going to discuss. We can go off topic obviously based on how the conversation goes. But there’s a predefined theme that everyone goes into knowing that this is what we’re going to talk about and this is how they can contribute. Question is who will define those themes and those questions? Good question. Maybe it would come from you at least in the beginning because you like maybe you and Peter because you guys are the most aware of what are the current challenges that you’re facing today and what are the burning questions that we should be discussing. Yeah, I know that’s not scalable for the long term. But again going back to the previous point where it’s okay if it’s with centralized for now and that’s one of the examples where if we were to vote every meeting what should we discuss that’s in defining our strong point. But an approach I love a lot is at very first maybe defining a roadmap that’s a 2023. Where do we want to head with deep fund? Try to identify the major and vision outcomes and then reverse engineer the whole thing. Identify which topics with chronology we have to set up for example in order to solve topic B we first have to solve topic A and based on them setting up the calls and structuring them into a really working sessions where we have the possibility to get nice insights and feedback on most crucial and important questions to accomplish the roadmap step by step. I like the idea of trying to make it more like a workshop sometimes so we have a goal we have a long term goal and then we have tactics and then how can we address that so that might be an interesting approach. What I want to be a little bit cautious about is that with a small group that we happen to be in in a certain meeting we make very fundamental decisions so those things I would rather then give to the community to vote about. So there’s a balance there. Of course all of you here have received quite a high reputation by being already active on the portal so if you put something out to a vote your vote will be weighed quite heavily. So that’s one thing another thought that crosses my mind feedbacks when you say this is I think it’s a good idea but we also have to be flexible and be reactive and watching out for new opportunities. So for instance the existing services is not something that I immediately that maybe I wouldn’t have thought about at the beginning of the year or whatever but it might turn out to be something really important but a very interesting topic for a workshop together and in a meeting like this could be let’s brainstorm on how we can make such a pool work and how we can attract people and how we can make the community enthusiastic about this. So I have to see whether it will be a success in itself but either way that could be an interesting topic and that would be something that we could and that would be an obvious goal for 23 to make sure that we don’t only have interesting teams and projects but also at your surfaces getting on the platform or being used. Joanna welcome good to have you here I’m glad that you still have found some time after catalyst to join us here. How are you? I wasn’t in catalyst I was I got invited to talk on this style call thing but it ended quite early so I’m happy to be here. Okay okay my mistake my mistake but good to see you anyway. New as well. Just last night to your to what you said you know that idea what I said was not to make decisions in this cost more like how we did before with the governance thing right with the governance experience to have a small group which is able to have a focus discussion and to generate high quality outcomes but decisions shouldn’t be done from a single small group right then send it out to the community presented and ask them hey what do you think it’s up for the vote now and making a little bit the bow of the one on the one side what are the strongest advantages of voting for sure you can reach massive audience if you would get a hold of audience in the call and expect a high quality outcome for some hundred people sitting in the call well doesn’t work so whatsoever right really trying to figure out the advantages of both and combine them then. Yeah but yeah I think this requires a little bit of experimentation too right. See how we can best get value out of the meetings and what kind of topics are best suited to discuss and then how we can best present them to the community and have them have a community vote on it and so maybe we can merge it somehow these things with a community governance rounds and that we have some proposals offered by the community and then we can also have one or two questions coming out of sessions like these that we want to propose to the community. All right I mean so so for the next meeting I think we’ll probably ask everyone to come up with topics for for the next meeting and see if that can be a first step and then read rest that we did that before right so and maybe we’ll have a few topics from ourselves as well. I might have an interesting one already but I won’t tell you now. All right all right this is more connected to the time slot generation. I do feel there’s multiple opportunities recently to what indicate a few one to different time slot. At the same time right now it’s happening at the same time as the catalyst town hall which yeah by definition it is not optimal there’s overlap between the audiences and so yeah I do think that’s something to at least a new year let’s say make sure I don’t know there’s so many evenings in the in the week I’m pretty sure we can find one which doesn’t overlap with an exact match topic wise. I’m not sure how many free spots you have in the week Peter. Yeah but yeah it’s not so not a given that it has to be in the evening there’s even an opportunity to have it on alternating time slots to accommodate people in other time zones in the world that would also be interesting. The thing is here the tricky thing is here that if we would like to get a good answer to this question we would need to ask also the people who are not frequenting this session yet so let’s think about that but I think Ruby would always be healthy to have more people joining these kind of sessions and I think with more people also the dynamics will change and then probably you’ll see less of me talking and more other people having interesting ideas. All right and I parked this one because we have a question coming up about the time slots so it’s not we will address it. Other things we are not doing at all but that you would like to see happening so you have any new great ideas workshops where we ideate on this on the spot. Yeah yeah yeah yeah it would be interesting like I said I would love to have a workshop on trying to engage well I can think of a number of things already so how do we get an onboarding training off the ground and who would be interested in helping support services to onboard would be one and somewhat related to that is how do we get existing services on our platform and how we I think these could be topics that we could brainstorm about together but maybe you have much better ideas than those and maybe I’ll have other ideas as well next time so yeah start thinking about it and now create a Google doc or something where everybody can can put their ideas doesn’t always have to be too complex. Things not really no sorry you were saying something please. Not fully agree with that thank you. An endless list of workshops that potentially could be relevant. And then we can really use TFO skills in and then with what’s the application called with notes yellow notes. My report. Yeah. Is it the my report? My report. My report. Of course of course I’ve used it so often myself. I just had too many meetings today I think that’s it. My report yeah of course. Alrighty not really no quite satisfied in the room for input allowed for any suggestions to be considered already well. Appreciate it of that not applicable okay. Hint singularity net services with a deep funding label to show a difference. Yeah yeah that’s a good one. Yeah yeah there will be right now they’re not that many out there like we still have to see the first one. I know that there are a few approaching that status right canary and a few others as well I think so we’ll be seeing them and yeah I think that’s a good idea to somehow attack them that way. Yeah. Anyone any other things shouting out here you would like to see that we didn’t think about a completely different form or idea or whatever so workshop is noted with a immediate brainstorming or something but what else? One thing what I think helps a lot and this calls it helps individuals to build experience and expertise within singularity and deep fund definitely. Simply being there having conversations about helps me a lot when other people come to me. I have feelings what is deep fund for the singularity net about I feel much more confident by being in this calls and getting first hand information and then handle it over to chat with other people. This is a massive value I would say. Good points and that brings me to next week which might not be we come to the rhythm afterwards but based on your suggestion Felix we will have I think it will just be a Zoom meeting like this one next week where we’ll invite everybody who has questions on deep funding and we’ll see who will join up and do it organically and have a meeting like this one maybe I have a very short presentation but I think most information is out there already so I don’t want to be repeating that in in health now or something and then make that session open for any questions not like a regular AMA but more like an open open open house so to speak a town hall. So that will hopefully also bring some people in that will also feel then a little bit more connected to deep funding and might also feel more comfortable in either joining or telling other people about it. So thank you. Just as you mentioned it we have this warm event team. We are some already a guys are you up to are you could we be ready to run a first deep fund town hall somehow next week because we really would love to invite people also from the catalyst community have we shift focus there starting to onboard and introduce them definitely with the goal as well to get them onboarded as proposed and as active participants on the platform and would have quite some resources there from our site where we can have a lot in setting up the event and all. I would I would applaud to death I would love it and then if you if you would like to have me there I’d be happy to be there for answering all kinds of questions and and if you want I can do a short presentation or whatever. Hell yeah I mean now no deep fund town hall version one without Jan maybe Lenin and me. Well I think now me high is doing a very good job in presenting deep funding around to to catalyst so maybe he can take my job sometime. That’s I would love to I would love to answer any questions that will pop up with with you modesty I do think I might be the person who is as most in that knowledge about all the finer print and rules and regulations and the reasons reasoning behind them so yeah happy to share that with anybody but then I would I would suggest Peter that if we do that in the context of swarm then we will invite our community there as well and then there’s no need to do two sessions right. Yeah I agree agree I guess it I think Felix mentioned already before about some singularities one I’m not sure how public I think it was public it’s coming alive. It’s coming alive. We just picked off the Twitter account today and made some announcements already. Shared it with with with our community introducing deep fund to and all the stuff the entire correlates to catalyst and the catalyst as well but yeah the main of this really you’re having a singularity in it’s one and we restart we kick start our whole thing but then folks like Eric as Krandano who is here who is really engaged as well best ambassador program on all the stuff and where we see already all cool there are people who start to take responsibility and leadership to really make sure that they’re taking the stage. Yeah I really deeply appreciate it I think that is so wonderful and we’re very grateful for you Felix and others to be organizing all that we owe you big time there thank you. So yeah let’s let’s agree rather quickly maybe on a slot next week and the context for organizing it and then we can start publishing about that note find people about it. I think this slot next week might actually be just fine because there’s no catalyst on all. Oh last one today. Yeah. Yes. You have holiday. So we can some please steal them the shoulder. No. No but I mean it works right 17 on one day 17 UTC I mean. Sounds good. I mean this is touching on the next question we’re discussing I guess but yeah. Just for the next time for the swarm and this presentation or QA on deep funding too but yeah then just let’s let’s pinpoint it on the 17 and a half hour and a half as well or would that be different? I have no idea what to expect how many people there will be and how many questions will be asked. I think one and a half is a good target time if it would end up being two hours that would also be okay but and I don’t think it should be more than that but maybe if after one hour everybody is completely clear about everything. Yeah perfect. Okay. One hour and a half would be a good target. Okay. Well since we’re on scheduling anyway then do we also have this call actually on the 28th of December because I do think that being in between Christmas and New Years that that one might be not optimal. Yeah. That’s personal. Let’s go to the next two questions Peter. So let’s start with question five. I think it’s five I don’t know. What interval makes the most sense for you having these community calls? So there is well I’m not sure about the statistical significance of these numbers like five contributors but there is a majority for bi-weekly. And lately we have been doing it on a weekly basis not every week but more often and often and there was always a reason to do it on a weekly basis. Yeah personally I also think bi-weekly is fine. Bi-weekly is fine but what are your ideas about this? Juena could see on camera as well. Now nice pink sweater. Any ideas here from this group on on intervals frequency? Bi-weekly seems nice but maybe also related to the stage in which we are. When we say for example in the proposal stage there might be more questions and community may have a lot of engagement where they would love to have a play then it comes down maybe then in the voting less is needed and after even less is needed. So maybe during the proposal submission is open maybe having it’s more frequent because there we can definitely expect that more people chime in they watch the recording than even from the tone and say oh that sounds amazing I want to join when is the next one can I chime next week? Yeah by some. Especially also about the the government community governance rounds in between that would also call maybe for a few extra meetings to discuss the proposals that come in etc. So on that point does it make sense to keep it weekly and cancel it or schedule it by weekly and then schedule a new one if needed. I would say schedule it by weekly and plan extras when needed. Yeah. Because canceling it doesn’t feel good right? On the other hand that does make sure that everybody has that placeholder in their agenda so that makes things a little bit easier from a practical point of view but. A lot also about canryk is noting in chat like by weekly can be appropriate for some groups but you do lose consistency depends on the goals. Well biweekly is very consistent I would say but if you go from biweekly to be weekly to biweekly that might be a little bit confusing at some point because at some point people don’t know anymore whether there’s a meeting or not but here I think the website can also play a bigger role than currently and I saw somewhere a question or feedback on that and I think that’s an interesting point as well. So I would go right now for biweekly but make sure that if we plan meetings in between the biweekly we try to do that well in advance and I think over the past months it was all quite experimental also the community governance route was not something that we planned long ahead we just went about and did it and hopefully as we go along well although I like that experimenting nature but there will also be a little bit more rhythm and predictability and so I think any schedule is okay as long as it’s clearly communicated basically. I can also imagine that we somehow plan more in advance some topics per meeting what will be done what will be discussed etc. Actually I think that could be a good topic for a first workshop to think about schedule and to think about teams and to see if we can make a kind of calendar for next three to six months or something because that will allow people if they see a topic that they’re passionate about to come and join that specific session. I was just about the governance calls or the town halls. I was thinking right now about the governance calls but to be very honest with you I’m not sure if I can differentiate them really well at this point in time so maybe we have to have to have to have had a few town halls as well to get a better idea of what belongs in which meeting and how we can use both both most effectively. Maybe to give a short differentiation town halls are we setting up? I usually there’s a first introduction in the main room it’s a it’s a Zoom call like this once and for example in the catalyst tunnel right now the breakout rooms open the map opening up and the breakout rooms are hosted as such that there’s an open sign up form as in per Google form where anybody who has a project a topic idea you want to discuss with the community can sign up a breakout room and he gets a sign up a he gets a breakout room the breakout rooms are introduced before we open them and the community in the main room can decide in which of the conversations which are proposed they want to chime in. I really like the concept but at the same time let’s say that would happen right now like we would split into four conversations out of two would be one person only like no no no no that that’s the difference with the governance call here and the town halls right the town halls they’re most broadly communicated announced to the community where you have a lot of entities because we saw in the beginning that when we here right now we are four five six seven people right so there’s no need for breakout rooms and some months from now or some years from now when we have really strong and vibrant community and we have one hundred one hundred fifty people in the call now it becomes difficult to discuss stuff and then the breakout rooms that you are sure that’s out but even sometimes we end up with breakout rooms with 30 people in the room and other ones with 25 because we have one hundred fifty people across five breakout rooms for example or whatnot. I think a town hall would be a very good thing to have in between after the end of the deep funding round and before the start of a governance round because that will give a lot of inputs you give people a stage where they can give feedback on what has happened and you get a lot of hustle and bustle and bring a lot of new ideas that can then be addressed properly structured in a governance round and I can and that that points me to the idea also again at the states where we are today maybe that will be different a year from now I can imagine that these governance calls as we’re doing them right now could be going on on a biweekly schedule but I can imagine that the town hall will you make town hall like a bigger event but then do it less often and then try to get as many people as possible to these town walls. Does it align with your ideas Felix? I mostly my ideas mostly come from what happened in the past and so through almost two years now we had this weekly town hall and what happened there is you don’t really need each time strong attenders and main topics and all the stuff and we started with how many people after being when we started I got 20 people something like this right but constantly crew and crew and the most important value generated there is that people start to meet each other start to learn about each other and start to work with each other and how the projects and companies emerged out of these meetings wow because you have this frequency where people actually if not they would just engage in this court a telegram or what not but they would not really get to know each other and we really wanted to drive this massive collaboration to say we have a lot of amazing builders and minds here what happens if they come regularly together and the outcomes have been massive actually friendships have been built companies have been built initiatives and what not and this why mostly the center of gravity I like to call where people come together exchange the ideas visions ambitions problems starts on anything around the ecosystem and we have this in a really all the time recurring thing allows a lot really to build culture within the ecosystem because culture has this peer-to-peer interaction right and this culture is extremely important when you think about strong projects which are resilient and which know what they do and find and collaborate as we say look we have this and this problem do you know how we can handle this then you have 20 people and you’re like yeah for sure like this I’m that and if you need my help just ping me here so you’re very confident oh sorry you’re very convincing the the only hesitance I have but that’s really the only hesitance I think this is a great idea and I would love love to get that off the ground also like I was referring to other before this in the broader context of decentralizing singularity net or parts of singularity net I think it’s important a culture is super important absolutely the only hesitance I have is will we be able to collect that many people that are required to do this successfully and of course the Cardano community is much larger than singularity net at this place and time but but yeah I think it’s a great initiative and I think yeah there’s no reason for me to try and steer any of that so I think it would be wonderful if this is really a community driven initiative and collective and collaboration as a side note what I personally hope we have we have bi-weekly team meetings with the with Canrick and other teams from deep funding and I also very much enjoy these meetings because you have a similar thing that you are saying that people are reacting to each other and seeing each other stuff and and and there’s always positivity and always people are being constructive and all the time we’re only with where we have now about nine teams and not all of them are there sometimes there are two or three but still it’s in there interesting discussion so what I hope looking forward to 2023 is that we will also be able to expound that going from runaround to another to another and that that group of teams and makers from that perspective will also grow bigger and more dynamic and more helping each other etc that’s something I would really love to see but then what you’re doing is more is doing the same but then from a community angle of course teams are also community members in a sense but it’s still a different kind of dynamic and then yeah we’ll have to find out how these two groups can then fuel each other with ideas and help and initiatives etc so those are all the big ideas for 2023 I think and beyond but I love it Felix I’m not sure how I can best contribute to that idea of the town halls but let’s be in touch and let’s let’s continue to discuss it all right so yeah I think we should need a we do need a workshop to to think about rhythm and and different kind of meetings and topics and agendas I think that would be a very good one time slots yeah five six that is about the same time as we are right now once as nine till 22 is very flexible person I forgot who it was but um UTC office hours yeah yeah but evenings likely a better attendance which is most important so yeah so I don’t see here a lot of reason to change it other than being overlapping with catalyst but we could do it of course on other day but I think that costs for yeah I was saying this costs for a server but it is so yeah maybe we should also think about that in the workshop on the agendas and topics etc also think about proper timing and see if I can in the meantime can collect some more feedback on that all right going on let’s continue so now the community so these were questions about this session we also took the opportunity to ask some feedback on the community governance round um 60 percent so three people did attend and two didn’t so interesting um what did you like about the process that it was there in the first place thank you the platform sway the available information and guidance being able to edit proposals and incorporate feedback how much time there was to write a review proposal okay the chance to present proposals and answer questions um yeah so positive signals on sway I’m very happy to hear that I there are still some things that I think can be improved everything can be improved um but we have a very we have found a very good baseline with that so I’m very very happy and glad that they’re appreciated um yeah also the time for the proposals um okay I think that that that’s generally good anyone here would like to shout out what you liked about maybe the next question is again more interesting to to focus on I submitted the form I liked that it was there in the first place yeah yeah yeah and and you liked that your proposal was so widely uh uh it was surprisingly well received I have to say um yeah I was not expecting that the thought like just only positive responses um yeah yeah it was good was a clear cut uh approval from the community what could be improved engagement numbers the rewards put in place already attempt this so we’ll have to see their effect next time very good point being able to vote on the same platform yeah yeah yeah that will be some time I think that is quite a major thing and there’s also a downside there we have a decentralized um space where we need tooling and that tooling consists of ideation of voting of uh discussions maybe of um things like trello boards like dework um all these things contribute to dashboards maybe I don’t know all these things contribute to decentralized governance and of course the most convenient thing is to have everything in one place uh in one two but that is a little bit um orthogonal to the idea of being decentralized suppose that everything would be in sway then we would be completely dependent on sway and and their uh their next step at some point so uh uh and apart from that there are also tools out there that that I think sway is actually connecting to um snapshot we looked at snapshots as a tool we like them and and and and I would like to be able to use them in the future but right now there are a few things that that were blocking us from that for instance we are doing great voting right now which is an experiment in itself uh also things like liquidity pools and and and all that stuff made a little bit complex uh let alone multi-chain might also not be the easiest thing to do on on a toolvac snapshot but in my ideal vision what would happen is that we would create some kind of ecosystem and I would love to work on that with folks from uh catalyst actually and then maybe create some proposals for that where we have an in an ecosystem of building blocks that can be put together and that will work very well together like a kind of best of greed system maybe where you can take out one block and put another one in without the whole system uh collapsing um I have some thoughts about that but that’s not the easiest thing that won’t be done uh tomorrow but I would love to see an initiative doing that stuff for real and then collaborating with a number of solutions that are already out there on the market and creating a system maybe not unlike our decentralized AI platform where you have modules that can work together and based on which you can build a front end and that will allow you to use and reuse functionality out there so that’s a little bit uh far away vision on the short term um the good thing is that we most likely will have uh voting with Cardano on our platforms or our platform will be multi-chain I’m always cautious when when promising something um so that will also mean that if you have uh on sway either you have a web3 wallet which is Ethereum right now they don’t support Cardano yet with their web3 but if you have a wallet mentioned or or defined for payouts of rewards um that would also be connected could also be connected with our voting platform so that would give a lot more opportunity to get reputation points and to use that reputation for a higher voting rate so we’re we’re thinking and working on integration integration is not necessarily the easiest thing uh so I think we’ll have to live with different systems for a while um but what we can do is try to make them make those uh separate system better integrated over time anything else uh somebody would like to add here or it could be improved on the uh community government right so we’re thinking about approvals on the system that’s is proposing uh improvements a meta-proper documentation document documentation yes exactly so that in later stages we are always able to refurbake to proper data and the best case on-chain as of chain this is one reason also for example why we distribute the jimble tokens for other tenants of this core right that we are already able to say okay community members we are able to recognize their contribution we are on chain validation of the contribution but then also make it really easy for people because this is most what we see in catalyst for example this is harryba no documentation leads to a lot of friction a lot of discordination and nobody understands actually what has been decided four months ago six months ago why is the decision you make now so important because the small series lies on the past and if there isn’t a proper documentation the whole governance thing just breaks apart as more as a duvirus actually and proper documentation is really a whole on task where you need to really strong people actually to run this yeah i wonder if it’s also like consolidating these documents i’m not i’m sure because they are a lot of information out there like i have to give praise for how much documents there are written on processes and stuff but i think i know the takes us because i’m in the discord so i’m wondering if like Felix was saying a couple months from now someone wants to go back and revisit why a decision was made or maybe i don’t know where you can find those so there’s like a little portal like notion maybe or something where people can like it just be like a live repository of these documents yeah good points oh one thing i take from this is we have to avoid that the same proposal is being done over and over again a while and then getting the same responses because that’s a waste of everybody’s time unless things have changed to an extent that it makes sense to ask the same thing again and maybe get different answers so that is one thing i think there it is yeah right as many more referring to the documents that are created like the learnings of um round one or like all those documents that come up after those are the documents i was referring to rather than the proposals in um the funds yeah yeah that would start by creating meeting minutes from sessions like these like right there we start actually and i think you really can start to look on proper use of already existing ii tools for example and really implement them to the similarity network from by what we started with a lot with some other projects is for instance the otte AI midrun sheeted some of them already and then you take all the meeting all the nodes from at ii and you copy paste it into chat t i p chat g p t and then you write write me a summary out of this node and write your summary then you say awesome now define action items out of the node then it defines your fucking action items then you say awesome now define now transform this into an essay and it gives you a lot of really nice text and you are there five minutes just copy pasting stuff what the machine actually does for you and it’s even for free until and you start to have some really awesome stuff is it cool that’s nice but you’re proper tooling right yeah so tooling is important yeah also dedicated person who will take care of this and make sure that this is always consistent and to be honest i know i won’t have time for that the problem is the for the rare and not everyone is the same people are always available in the same meetings and yeah we would need so maybe tooling helps but Joanna like a deep funding author that works you just throw it in all the meetings and you capture all the meetings yeah yeah if that is the that that’s of course no problem at all indeed where are you like the documents that are sent in the community governance discord channel like the conditions and guidelines or like the community governance topics and outcomes like all of those where can someone go to find them and not just in the discord channel um i think most things i share end up on the website as either as a blog or right now and rules and conditions for instance and then it is finalized and for instance the rules and conditions this round are different than the rules and conditions of the previous round um yeah maybe we could create an audit trail of that somehow if that’s beneficial i do have it because we put it as an attachment to the contracts and they also still have them in in WordPress as unpublished items yeah honestly i don’t think it’s very pressing i think it’s really still well organized and like the the community is small enough to like navigate and ask questions instead of but it could be something to consider in the in the near future but i don’t think it’s pressing because if there’s everything that’s already published on like i know i’ve seen articles everywhere then they’re easy to find i don’t think it’s it’s um it’s an issue i think our website needs to be improved but that’s another thing um what was i going to say yeah this was point i was going to make regarding doing things on chain i’m a firm believer that if it’s a mess of chain then the mess will be even bigger on chain because you can’t organize it after you’ve put it there so i would rather see first see an organized uh system and process and then start and i’m totally uh in favor of making things on chain when there’s a need for that also want to avoid that people would become more um scared of saying things or doing things because it will be recorded for all eternity uh on chains so that’s another thing there but um i think there’s merit in doing that uh especially going forward when we want to mature as a as a governance entity um yeah it makes absolutely defense to store these things online but my first goal would be to make the processes to improve the processes and yeah i’m also in favor of making an effort to document better as long it doesn’t take me a lot of extra time because i simply don’t don’t have that opportunity so if somebody is for so otter yeah we can do that we can do that if we are in favor i can pay a license from the deep funding treasury and then we could uh could have it used here no problem whatsoever um and then you can also use it Peter for ambassador program if you want do you have a community sorry like a community version account yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah also for ambassador program it would be great to have this um this cause um transcreated we’re using this uh discord right now so that’s yeah well yeah good topic for workshop all this tooling and how we can do this actually very interesting thing yeah all right it’s it’s getting time so let’s let’s continue but thanks for that and um we’ll have otter on your proposal uh Felix uh to see real influence in the meeting we make decisions like that what is your preferred frequency of these governance rounds um after each funding rounds once a year wow that’s a surprise and the beginning of each quarter yeah so i think each quarter and each funding round might somehow be uh similar hopefully at some point um it’s like majority there’s no significance right in five people answering these questions but um um um after each funding round i think we discussed that before also after each funding rather remember you saying Felix that you would like that uh i suppose that’s still the case any other have another view on this yeah i think we’ll start after each funding round i think that makes sense and then yeah we can revisit that and and see how that thrives if there are new proposals coming on or if it bleeds out at some point uh or becomes bigger and bigger and then we have to do it more often that’s also an option so we’ll be interesting to see how that will evolve and it was about rewards both tokens and reputation to free to share any and all feedback um potentially tie this in with the ecosystem right governance uh engagement you have deep funding reputation count if just a little bit for singularity net governance events 100% with you there fair and transparent distribution of rewards um is that a desire or is that a statement on the current an observation i don’t know it’s great for sure it’s related to current so i think i’m finishing so maybe not everybody thinks i think the same but um it’s great if deep funding rewards the coaches and the community managers yeah so yeah we we don’t have those layers right now and we we have more like an organic way that people are doing stuff um but i think we need to continue to think about how everybody is properly rewarded for their efforts and doesn’t always have to be only in tokens or money or whatever um but i think this is a good start to award people for their contributions on uh on the the deep funding rounds yeah maybe we can also somehow tie meetings like this to reputation i think that would also make a lot of sense but then the question would be how to facilitate that and how to make that practical and and and transparent and traceable etc well there’s an answer to that already yeah that last bit for meetings at least yeah like like it’s done in in in the ambassador is that already done in the ambassador you write uh oh Felix is doing that with these jimble tokens so yeah that makes it part of the swam treasury on chain data but then we also have to make sure so um i’m trying to get some people uh motivated to create a proposal for this deep funding round to create a reputation dashboard uh so that i don’t have to do it on excel continues to do it in spreadsheet and and to make it more reliable and predictable and and maybe also more transparent um and then when the next step would be how can we add other sources to that so one sources could be the Kim uh the gimbal tokens presence rewards for instance and then um yeah we are honored already because right now the whole treasury and accounting system which rebuild tracks engagement participation we had this replacement of tokens on chain and off chain and we build it as a debt and right now we are setting up the dashboard further ready in order of being able to track which person received when which amount of tokens for which tasks we have to see the lid up yeah we do it voluntarily we don’t have any funds for it but maybe this is something what we could address because we have quite some structure in place already but it doesn’t yeah but we like that we build it voluntarily so the devs there they are paid for our stuff and they just spend the free time to level it up and bring it to the next level so then yandet oh sorry just last night but it’s meant to be a dev so everybody will be able to use it and run it on their own instance yeah i think that’s tough to to to think about and we should yeah i know i talked about it with Peter sometimes yeah i’m not 100% sure whether we need another token to be honest that’s i feel a little bit resistance myself to to open eyes and then i wanted to be open for unusable for everybody and for other projects having already a token attached to it might might create a little bit of resistance and also not sure 100% sure whether it’s always needed but um yeah that’s so the so the thing is what i do need right now still is a proper dashboard that does the calculations related to different rounds on reputation because it was already quite sophisticated the first time actually indeed funding it will be less sophisticated in a sense because we’re not counting the submissions um but still around by round it will get more and more complex and if we would create liquidity there so that you will get more a higher reward for getting a positive comment from a higher reputation person than from a lower reputation person then it will easily get infinitely complex and not being a not not doable anymore in the system like spreadsheet so my statement would be what what i still set out to be is make a dashboard for these interactions on sway particularly right now and then the next step would be if we have a similar system that tracks behavior on meetings for instance then we would need to consume that as well and then a third source could be um history over wallet so is this a very new wallet or very old wallet or is it going on and off or is it has it steady a steady amount on it we could tie some kind of reputation to that as well and then we could put it all in a mixer and and for different purposes we could use then different metrics so that is that is a little bit my vision and i think your gimbal initiative ties in very well there um i’m not sure if it can replace that system yeah i was just going to say i think reading the document in and following what Felix said i think what would eventually happen is that could be data that could be fed into the system and then added to the reputation score that’s kind of what i understood as well cool okay so there’s a lot of work there to be done as well and i hope we can create a very nice proposal for that together and then hope that the community will be appreciative of that as well and then we can start building it together with Juana maybe yeah i did have some questions about that but i didn’t know if this was the right place to to ask but i’ll send it in the group chat all right cool cool um we have a chat on this uh Felix on discord i kept it closed for now but i’m you’re of course you and anybody else who would like to uh is welcome to join those discussions oh no if Juana is there i don’t need to be there she’s amazing you already have plenty of hats and things to do i’m sure but um yeah just say so if you if you i’m really open about it so if you would like to join then feel free um but otherwise we’ll we’ll get this out as a proposal uh some some time and then we’ll be able you you and everybody else will also be able to uh give feedback on it by that time which by now has become kind of time-pressing as well so we need to get forward on that yeah all right we’re ready of time as usual as often but always one one last question do you think it could be possible to extend the proposal submission a little bit because many people will be uh invocation christmas nulia and all the stuff they will come back in the first second week of December then they were just wondering if this could be possible if you really have your fixed timeline set in stone already um well we have communicated the date but i also mentioned to one person on uh telegram today who had same remark i said well if this is a widely felt um uh uh convention conviction um yeah then i’m for sure open to extend it a little bit um my my the reason why we did it now is be first of all because we could um and second because i thought that for sure and i still think that for some people actually the christmas period is a very suitable time uh if you have a day job and you have some holiday right now that might give you the time that you otherwise don’t if the proposal that you’re submitting is part of your day job then of course it’s a different thing and you might want to have some extra time um i think we should find out somehow i think this would call for some maybe not a vote but some kind of of poll uh to see um if there is a widely felt idea that uh this should be should be extended and then i don’t have any any problems with it and then to extend it with say two weeks or so but i also don’t want to jump to any conclusions uh right now um let’s find let’s think about a proper process to uh to to determine this Peter you are thinking you have any thoughts on this topic i see you thinking yeah i don’t know anyway um this kind of predictable that the christmas days and holidays in general being part of the rant would lead to some disagreements i guess um it’s i think it’s hard to assess like i saw you mentioning in uh previous discussions as well that the submissions really came at the very last moment of the of the period yeah i don’t know it’s a month from now i kind of feel like that’s enough time at the same time if it’s yeah if it will stop others from joining and we need to wait uh i don’t know if three or six months for round three to start i hope not six months i hope that’s why no i know um let’s see what’s going on for these meters that’s first first first way the week let’s see what happens i as mentioned last time health of the proposals came in the last three days or so i hope that’s a little bit different this time because also with the incentive mechanism i hope that more people will be collaborating online and that will in turn be an incentive to submit although we might be seeing those effects and not until the next round um so let’s let’s think about it and then um i do feel also because we have communicated it that we need to have some kind of community feedback before we decide on this and not sure if this would go for an official vote or like to minimize the number of times that we have to do an official vote but if we could do some kind of poll somewhere and then determine maybe in advance that uh what a minimum amount of of uh submissions would be for it to be for us to validate it something like that i already see people gaming it but well if you have time enough to game it you also have time enough to put the proposal and it should be fine cool all right peeps thanks a lot any last questions or remarks you call us peeps uh that is so cute i only call my best friends that all right thanks thanks a lot for being here thanks for your feedback and um i suppose this means well the next one will not be in two weeks because then it’s the 28th so it will probably sooner be three weeks or something but then that will be the first week of January so i’m not sure about that one either what were the things should we do on the first week of January or not or should we wait another week and open Peter for the program we don’t like with the work groups we do have the the tunnel um yeah that’s not the most clear answer i guess i don’t know what we’ll we’ll try to organize something a little bit online with instead of having a meeting or we can try to have some online chat we don’t do that that much right and then think about a proper list of topics uh for the next rounds and get some input and see if we can get that discussion going on uh discord or telegram or whatever yeah discord works nicely with the first channels integrated well the idea is to do it offline so so have a document and and and and chat uh uh like have a dialogue because otherwise you have to be present again that we can just but we have that discussion um uh not synced how you say asynchronous at least if we’re having this this long time off so to speak uh we could use that time to collect ideas uh suggestions uh think about the format uh that time is there but maybe everybody will just be on hold today we’ll see okay all right oh i’m still sharing i never noticed that because i make the other window uh bigger but uh all right all right then that’s the end folks thanks a lot have a great holiday time have a great holiday season and uh start working on those proposals.